Without Comment

Recently, a gentleman posted a new thread at my favorite gun forum, The Firing Line. He was concerned because a friend, a police officer, had told him that he (the police officer) had received inside information that all rifle ammunition will soon be made with primers that "expire" 90 days after purchase, thus rendering the ammunition useless (and therefore preventing people from stocking up on ammunition and storing it for the long term.)

He was told that this particular rumor has been around since the Clinton Assault Weapon Ban era, and that it is so improbable as to be considered false. I make no comment on the gentleman's comments; I would simply like to reproduce them here, verbatim, without the responses of the other participants to separate them. Draw your own conclusions, please.

anyone heard of plans for date restricted ammo?

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I was talking to a LEO friend of mine Saturday evening and he told me there were plans for producing ammo especially for rifles that had primers that were date controlled. They would only be good for 90 days after you bought them. The idea is to keep people from hoarding ammo (sounds like we should start doing just that while we can).

This guy is VERY knowledgable about guns. His dad owned a gun store and he's been a dedicated gun fan all of his life. I've never seen him give me bad info yet.

Anyone else heard anything like this?

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OK so a guy that has never said anything wrong about any gun topic and has inside information from his LEO job suddenly decides he wants to talk total BS. Yeah right. You people who think you know what's possible and what isn't should take a look back at how many times such things have been proven wrong. The ammo would come with a "use by" date on it if this were implemented.

I didn't ask for your speculation about the veracity of the information my friend gave me. If he said it then it's true. I asked if you had heard about it. I should have guessed that people on the net couldn't resist telling someone else they were full of crap. Well guess what. You didn't convince me. You should really join the 21st century where new things are discovered every day. Something as minor as developing a powder that draws moisture from the air could easily make this technology happen. In case you haven't noticed (and obviously you haven't) chemistry has made monumental gains in the past two decades. Ever hear of nano technology? The idea that you can say for certain this is impossible is pure BS.

Then there's the possiblity that it just becomes illegal to own ammunition past a certain date X number of days after you buy it. Now there's an easy way to implement the same thing. It prevents hoarding by making honest citizens fear going to jail if they do. Yeah there's no way to make this idea work. Right.

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Let's take a roll call here. How many of you have sons that do research for the Air Force? How many have sons that are getting paid a huge salary while also working on his doctorate in applied physics at a major university? How many have sons that only missed having the same setup at Harvard because the seats were very limited and they were filled by people with political pull?

You people live in a fairy land. You don't know anything of the kind of research going on in the world. Guess what? I do. I have an inside source.

Do you comprehend what it means to be doing defense department research? I didn't think so. Make all your moron jokes then think about who's closer to the world of science.

Do you know sort of things the military is doing now with technology? They have a helicopter that is completely camouflaged and so quiet it could be flying 20 feet away from you and you wouldn't hear it. Do you know they have a laser system that can read body signs on a battlefield (heart rate, blood pressure, breathing rate) from a long distance away? My son was one of the lead engineers on that project. Do you know anything about remote viewing? Do you know the Russians can read your thoughts from space by analyzing the heat patterns radiating from your brain? It isn't ESP. It's science. The remote viewing thing is ESP though and it's a proven technology and has been for decades.

Do you know anything about quantum mechanics? I do. Just because your mind can't conceive of a way to do something it doesn't mean it's impossible. Do you know they said stealth technology was impossible until it was revealed to the public?

And you think modern science can't solve a simple problem like creating a powder that becomes inneffective over time? Oh yeah that's a real tough one.

I repeat. I know the sort of things the military is capable of doing because my son does it for them. It's called applied physics. My son's particular area of expertise is laser physics. He's had several articles published in science journals and he's received several awards for his work.

So don't pretend that you know more about modern science than I do because you don't. It took my son 6 years to get to the point where he's at working night and day and he has an IQ of 152. Mine is a mere 148. Mensa invited me to join their group but I didn't see the point. No I didn't do applied physics in college and my engineering major only lasted a semester. But that was only because I found something I liked better. I studied history because it covers everything in every field. And I do discuss technology with my son a lot. If you think you have a source like that you're going to have to prove it to me.

For example did it occur to any of you "this went around a long time ago" types that maybe there was something to it back then and it's just now becoming a finished product?

Are they doing it? I don't know. That's why I asked if anyone else had heard about it. Can they do it? You bet they can. If you think modern science can't find a way you just haven't been paying attention. I mentioned nano technology before. It's theoretically possible to drop a few molecule sized machines on a battlefield that are programmed to build weapons from the materials they find. Don't believe that either? Read this web page. If you're a Star Trek fan you might be interested in knowing that the technology for the borg was based on nanotechnology. A few atoms are injected into a living thing and they transform it into a combination of living tissue and metallic weapons. It's not as far fetched as it seems. Nano technology is the next great frontier of science and it's here now.

In short (yeah I know it's too late to call this short) you don't know what you're talking about when you say it's impossible. Your childist taunts just prove how out of touch you are.

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The problem is that the Public-at-Large is wholly ignorant of a lot of things primarily because they do not read and are quite fearful of change.

At least there is one person on this board with a clue about modern technology. RFID is one of the most threatening technologies to come around in a very long time. I was actually quoted in a major magazine on issues related to RFID. If you don't get the Caspian newsletter from nocards.org it would be a good idea to sign up. We should all be up on the progress of this big brother technology. If people think expiring ammo is bad they're sure to like having the amount of cash you have in your pocket being picked up by a machine in every store they go in or having their credit card balances checked so the store employees know whether to talk to them or kick them out. Having your underwear trigger ads directed at you isn't exactly a part of my ideal world. Having your house be used to spy on your isn't either.

People are so naive about technology it's amazing sometimes. They're lucky others are paying attention for them.

If you want the address for the Caspian newsletter I'll be glad to give it to you. Just send me a PM so we don't have to post an email address in an open forum.

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As said before cops, physicists, and air force researchers have about as much knowledge and information as the manager of the local McD's.

That's funny. I didn't know McDonald's managers had to take 8 quarters of chemistry in college and also be required to make at least a B in every quarter. You're really showing complete ignorance here. I mean monumental, out of your skull stupid, ignorance. What the heck do you think a physicist is anyway? It's not a psychic which you seem to think you are because you obviously don't know this baloney from actual experience. That only leaves ESP and since you're so completely wrong that rules you out as having ESP anyway.

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just because you found an outlandish conspiracy theory that you're gung-ho for, doesnt mean that people will stoop to your level of blind incomprehension of the world around them. your biblical quote is a perfect example.

Nothing quite like having a discussion with a bigot. I quoted the Bible as a source of wisdom. I never made any mention of it in any other respect. Yet you prononced my reference wrong because it came from the most read, most influential, most respected book in the history of mankind. You proclaimed that billions of people are fools and that you know more than all of them. Sounds like I could throw in arrogance in my description of you. I won't get into a religious discussion with you. It's off topic on this board. Just leave it to say "Mr. Nice Guy" describes you like calling Stalin "Mr. Fun". Nothing proves a person wrong faster than an exhibition of bigotry and you just spewed a big chunk of it.

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They don't know everything, or anything in some cases.

Well golly I must be a complete idiot then! I guess I failed to mention his dad was a gun shop owner and he grew up loving guns from the word go and he spent years working for his dad and learning all sorts of things about guns. Wait a minute. I didn't forget to say that stuff. You just forgot to read it. Or you ignored it. Does ignoring things make you ignorant? In your case I'd have to wonder.

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Saying that, do I believe what he said might be true. Probably not.

Ah an enlightened soul. I wouldn't have asked if anyone had heard of it if I didn't question it. I just said it was possible. I also said I had faith in what the LEO told me because I know his background and we've talked guns many times and he's never been wrong yet. That doesn't mean I think he's infallible. He's not. If I thought he was I wouldn't have come here to ask about it. And you're so right on the religion bashing thing. Nothing shuts down a discussion faster than bigotry. I didn't preach to anyone. I just quoted some scripture because it has a lot of truth to it. This thread proves that. I will say that I am a Christian but I will also say that has nothing to do with this discussion.

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it's alright to use a biblical quote as an insult, but to refute the quote is an attack. that's an awfully hypocritical and one sided view

You didn't refute anything. You just bashed religion. My quote was exactly appropriate and your posts prove it. You're a bigot pure and simple. Bigots are swine in my book any day of the week. And you said I couldn't insult you as much as you insulted me. Looks to me like I got your goat big time. Game, set and match to the Christian.

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First, he was wrong to slam you using a biblical reference.

That's your opinion. I thought it was perfectly appropriate myself. I was attacked for mentioning a possible future problem. If that isn't a case of pearls before swine and having them turn again to rend me then I don't know what is. I could have quoted Hindu, Islam, Zen, Confucianism, Plato, Aristotle, Existentialism (with either the Kierkegaard, Sarte, Nietzsche, Heidegger, or Camus interpretations) or just about any other religion or creed you choose. Here let's pick one. You can pick another later and I'll get back to you.

I don't usually like to quote Confucius but here goes anyway, "Respectfulness, without the Rites, becomes laborious bustle; carefulness, without the Rites, become timidity; boldness, without the Rites, becomes insubordination; straightforwardness, without the Rites, becomes rudeness." The rites revolve around politeness and what situations a person should be submissive and when he can expect others to be submissive to him. A person seeking knowledge should expect a polite response instead of rude putdowns. Now do you feel better since I insulted Mr. Nice Guy (ha!) with Confucianism?

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I'm guessing that with enough research and development it is. It doesn't seem that crazy to me, since I've had dissolving stitches

That was pretty much my opinion too and I've also had dissolving stitches. Mine were after my stage 4 cancer surgery where that fairy tale religion called Christianity caused me to keep living for 19 years longer than I should have. That statement has no bearing on your comments of course. It was just for the benefits of the bigots.

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I don't doubt King doesn't beleive this a second, I'd just want to see some "verification" before I beleive it.

The main thing I've said about believing this is that I would take the word of my friend over the all too eager to jump on someone, net bashers who think they can dominate every conversation by quoting their PC beliefs. Oh they will argue night and day that they aren't PC but they are the epitome of PC. Let me ask you something. If I was so convinced that this was true wouldn't I have just reported it as true instead of asking about it? Take a look at the thread title. Isn't my question an indication that I'm not at all sure about this? Yet the all too common net loon has raised it's ugly head and begun to squawk it's ugly squawk.

How it savors the chance to belittle and put down. Can't you hear it? Moron! Moron! It squawks. Keep in mind that these intellectual giants have trouble spelling a word correctly but they are sages when it comes to knowing what each and every human should think. They often couldn't even graduate from high school but they know science, chemistry, physics, theology and ethics without even trying.


It must be great to be born believing you're the smartest egg in the carton despite being proven to be just the opposite in every endeavor you've ever attempted. How many have graduated from college? How many have won awards as the best in their field? How many get quoted in highly respected magazines? The world hasn't beat a path to their door but they would have you think their half baked excuse for knowledge surpasses everything under the sun and beyond.

Is it great to be so convinced that your thinking is so perfect that you couldn't possibly be wrong and all those who question it are idiots and morons? But what happens late at night when all those past failures come creeping back into your conscious mind? Are they too stiff necked to even recognize that the world has found them lacking in terms of their sage personnas? Do they have legions of followers or are they their only fans? It must hurt in those moments when the truth comes bursting through like a fat fist through the space under your facemask.


When they remember that they have failed every time when it came time to prove their intelligence. Is that what makes them lash out at the world so?

Are they aware of just how easy they are in the hands of a true master? Do they know they can't win in a battle of wits with a Godzilla class, flame breathing monster? They don't even recognize the name until it's too late. They have come face to face with Monster Zero, the king of Planet X! They are in a battle with King Ghidora himself and they didn't discover it until it was too late! Right in front of them stands the three headed, Hell flame breathing King Of Flames himself! And it's too late to run! Welcome to my domain "boys". Let's see how well you stand up when the fun really begins. Better flamers than you have run for cover spouting gibberish and crying for mercy. Unless your best friend is Godzilla you're in trouble now.
LOL! LOL! LOL! Enjoy the ride down. It's a one way ticket!

Nah! J/K! I like you morons!

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Anyone with the power to implement such a thing as you are proposing would almost certainly have the power to curtail your ability to get ammo in much simpler and easier ways than this utter nonsense.

You're assuming you know how difficult it would be. That's pretty amazing unless you have ESP. And I just love how anything that people can't grasp gets labelled with such things as "utter nonsense". If only you knew how often that phrase has been followed by egg on the face. Your cheap shots won't change what I think and they certainly won't convince me of my own logical process having a problem. If they convince me of anything it's that too many people are narrow minded and high handed. Arrogance is what drives a comment like that. And arrogance never gained a thing for anyone. You do damage to your own case by claiming to know what you can't possibly know. People like you said man would never fly. They said the world was flat. They said we didn't go to the moon. Yet people still fall into the same traps. Give it up. It only makes you look like a jerk when you say something so insulting. You're locked in to a thought process and being rigid makes you slow. In this case it's slow witted that you are becoming and you embrace it with open arms. I'll never understand why people are so quick to grasp at something when they don't know the facts. Is it arrogance or just stupidity that makes you cling to the past and insult anyone else who doesn't? How many examples do you need of people looking like fools for making claims they can't back up? You're talking out of the wrong end when you claim to know something you can't know.

Have you even considered the introduction of organic compounds to a bullet? How hard could it be to make a bullet that is part organic that will break down over time. Are you aware of genetic engineering? It could be possible to introduce a microbe inside a bullet that would eat some part of the powder rendering it inert.

Stop being so small minded because it isn't a good thing. Science makes startling discoveries every day and those who say "impossible" invariably look like idiots all too often. You can't possibly know it is impossible. You can't know how expensive it would be. To assume that you do is just pathetic. It shows a complete lack of imagination and a disregard for history which shows that head in the sand types get proven wrong time after time. You're the one that needs couch time pal. You just jumped in the boat with those who said cars would never replace horses and that telephones were just toys. Snap out of it. You're making a mockery of yourself.

I produce historical documentaries for a living pal. What do you do? Wanna talk about the people who said schools shouldn't be centralized, going against the grain of the so called establishment thinking? If you've spent the last 5 years researching this issue you might be as well educated on the issue as I am. You think you're so smart. You're a full fledged member of the flat earth society and you don't even have the sense to know it.

Also hogdogs. You assume that is the primer that is the part that will be affected. It could be any one of the bullet parts from a melting bullet to chemically altered powder.

I'm done with you mental midgets. I have better things to do than to argue with people who assume the world will never change. Your kinds has been around since the first man balanced a load on a log and called it a wheel. Your kind was babbling on that the guy playing with fire for the first time was insane. If you argue with an idiot long enough it's hard to tell which is which. So I'm done giving life lessons to you mental pygmies. You couldn't carry my jock strap when it comes to knowledge of science and it's history. Just remember that most of the world thought the world was flat just like you think date limited ammunition isn't possible. Go ahead and act superior and be proud of your closed minded ignorance. It's always good to have some comic relief. And you guys have been a great source of it. You're half-baked block heads and you wouldn't know a scientific advance if it kicked you in the pants. Just remember they said a cartridge loading firearm was impossible. They said automatic fire would never work. They said frangible bullets would never work. They even said that gunpowder wasn't good for anything except fireworks. Welcome to the world of the head in the sand crowd. I hope you enjoy your ignorance. They say ignorance is bliss. Well you people should be about as blissful as it comes. Go ahead and be proud of being a moron. It suits you just fine.

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Hey, it's me again. Did you read all that? Well, I said I would post it without comment, so . . . reluctantly . . . . I will. There's just something about it that brought me up short, and I thought I would share it with all of you.